Comments on: ‘Kierkegaard says…’ http://journeymanphilosopher.today.com/2008/11/03/kierkeaard-says/ Slow down and think.... Sun, 27 Dec 2009 01:43:19 +0000 http://www.today.com/version-2.3.1 By: happycolour http://journeymanphilosopher.today.com/2008/11/03/kierkeaard-says/#comment-792 happycolour Mon, 01 Dec 2008 10:16:58 +0000 http://journeymanphilosopher.today.com/2008/11/03/kierkeaard-says/#comment-792 Julman: I truly feel personally that the correct answer to your questions resides in both possibilities. Fundamentally people view themselves as living through the senses, this is in essence how we confirm our own existence to ourselves and the world (owning an ipod proves you exist as a consumer in the world on one level, and a person deeply connected to the social experience of your own society on another). But where does this thought stem from? I would argue that it stems from lack of realization of the 'higher' plain of confirmation of existance option. As we live we are taught by society to 'exist in this way' moving to the 'higher' plain is not an easy task when one is submerged deeply in the premises of those externally in power positions. Thus we don't let got of the categories of sensation because it is being human to us due to our limited understanding of the higher possibility of creating our own truth through the 'higher' plain. Cgardener: Good observation. Suicide is an act that comes about when it becomes the only hope remaining, it is the lack of all other hope. However this to others is naturally perceived as the lack of all hope, because most consider suicide not a sensible options as they believe it to be the state of giving up. Although I believe many people have committed suicide in manners where there thought patterns were deluded and thus the choice was not logically justifiable (usually through the use of drugs and intoxicants; ie they trick themselves into doing it), I do believe of the possibility of individuals making a justifiable suicide attempt after much deep thought and a personal realization. Although there is a sense of logic in this, this logic is based on the emotion experienced. It is difficult to justify suicide when in essence I believe we are responsible for our own emotions (ie we create them and completely control our perception of value), this is as one justifies suicide logically based upon the emotions he/she has created and placed on themselves. In metaphor it is as if whilst sitting in a bathtub filling it with cold water one says 'This bathtub is so cold I must get out of it no matter the cost.' Paul: Interestingly enough your view on dealing with despair is the third and final step of Kierkegaard's evolution of suffering. The first is 'Being unconscious in despair of having a self' living in the senses, the second is 'Not wanting in despair to be oneself' looking at others and wanting to be someone else (this is the stage where suicide would be most common), and the third is 'Wanting in despair to be oneself' this is when one excepts there despair in essence out of a combination of pride/spite (ie it is mine and it makes me stronger). However Kierekegaard feels that in order to get out of despair you need God and then it gets a little crazy for me! Julman:
I truly feel personally that the correct answer to your questions resides in both possibilities. Fundamentally people view themselves as living through the senses, this is in essence how we confirm our own existence to ourselves and the world (owning an ipod proves you exist as a consumer in the world on one level, and a person deeply connected to the social experience of your own society on another). But where does this thought stem from? I would argue that it stems from lack of realization of the ‘higher’ plain of confirmation of existance option. As we live we are taught by society to ‘exist in this way’ moving to the ‘higher’ plain is not an easy task when one is submerged deeply in the premises of those externally in power positions.

Thus we don’t let got of the categories of sensation because it is being human to us due to our limited understanding of the higher possibility of creating our own truth through the ‘higher’ plain.

Cgardener:
Good observation. Suicide is an act that comes about when it becomes the only hope remaining, it is the lack of all other hope. However this to others is naturally perceived as the lack of all hope, because most consider suicide not a sensible options as they believe it to be the state of giving up.
Although I believe many people have committed suicide in manners where there thought patterns were deluded and thus the choice was not logically justifiable (usually through the use of drugs and intoxicants; ie they trick themselves into doing it), I do believe of the possibility of individuals making a justifiable suicide attempt after much deep thought and a personal realization. Although there is a sense of logic in this, this logic is based on the emotion experienced. It is difficult to justify suicide when in essence I believe we are responsible for our own emotions (ie we create them and completely control our perception of value), this is as one justifies suicide logically based upon the emotions he/she has created and placed on themselves. In metaphor it is as if whilst sitting in a bathtub filling it with cold water one says ‘This bathtub is so cold I must get out of it no matter the cost.’

Paul:
Interestingly enough your view on dealing with despair is the third and final step of Kierkegaard’s evolution of suffering. The first is ‘Being unconscious in despair of having a self’ living in the senses, the second is ‘Not wanting in despair to be oneself’ looking at others and wanting to be someone else (this is the stage where suicide would be most common), and the third is ‘Wanting in despair to be oneself’ this is when one excepts there despair in essence out of a combination of pride/spite (ie it is mine and it makes me stronger).
However Kierekegaard feels that in order to get out of despair you need God and then it gets a little crazy for me!

]]> By: cgardener http://journeymanphilosopher.today.com/2008/11/03/kierkeaard-says/#comment-789 cgardener Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:27:09 +0000 http://journeymanphilosopher.today.com/2008/11/03/kierkeaard-says/#comment-789 I disagree that suicide is committed in the absence of hope. I think suicide is a way to stop the pain when one can no longer stand it. As you said, depressed people are realistic. If you cannot realistically expect whatever pain you are enduring to end, then suicide is the logical answer. I have a hard time believe that all suicide is an emotional response. I believe that people often think long and hard before taking their lives, and to them, it is the most logical solution. I disagree that suicide is committed in the absence of hope. I think suicide is a way to stop the pain when one can no longer stand it. As you said, depressed people are realistic. If you cannot realistically expect whatever pain you are enduring to end, then suicide is the logical answer. I have a hard time believe that all suicide is an emotional response. I believe that people often think long and hard before taking their lives, and to them, it is the most logical solution.

]]> By: Julman Tolentino http://journeymanphilosopher.today.com/2008/11/03/kierkeaard-says/#comment-788 Julman Tolentino Sun, 30 Nov 2008 16:17:21 +0000 http://journeymanphilosopher.today.com/2008/11/03/kierkeaard-says/#comment-788 I find it interesting that Kierkegaard's statement seems to refer to classism at first. But then see the concept of spirituality raised. From what I read, Kierkegaard likens individuals to a house in which the prefer to remain in the basement, or their physical plain. It is here (in the basement) where they are in most contact with their sensations (physical pleasure & pain). Of course, with Buddhist and other spiritual teachings "living in the categories of sensations" is temporal and often leads to despair. Kierkegaard seems to ask 'Why do human beings choose to live in their despair as opposed to living on a higher floor (spirituality)?' Which leads me to ask "Are we as human beings, fearful of letting go of our despair (and/or the categories of sensations) simply because this is what we believe 'defines' us as humans?" Or "Are we simply ignorant (or disconnected) from that which could be achieved if we worked on our spirituality (lived on a higher floor)?" I find it interesting that Kierkegaard’s statement seems to refer to classism at first. But then see the concept of spirituality raised. From what I read, Kierkegaard likens individuals to a house in which the prefer to remain in the basement, or their physical plain. It is here (in the basement) where they are in most contact with their sensations (physical pleasure & pain). Of course, with Buddhist and other spiritual teachings “living in the categories of sensations” is temporal and often leads to despair. Kierkegaard seems to ask ‘Why do human beings choose to live in their despair as opposed to living on a higher floor (spirituality)?’ Which leads me to ask “Are we as human beings, fearful of letting go of our despair (and/or the categories of sensations) simply because this is what we believe ‘defines’ us as humans?” Or “Are we simply ignorant (or disconnected) from that which could be achieved if we worked on our spirituality (lived on a higher floor)?”

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